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Author Subject: Official War Thread, Read Warnings and posting rules
jooli
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 04:39
Official War Thread, Read Warnings and posting rules

ONLY things related to the current situation will be posted here, because I know that its on our minds, and hard to ignore.
This forum will be CLOSELY moderated. Please respect people's feelings.

FLAMES and UNAPPROPRIATE content will be DELETED or CENSORED , so watch what you say.

Otherwise, voice your opinion, that is APPROPRIATE .

Remember this is a public DESIGN forum, and any racial, sexist or any "stupid" comments will be deleted, and member WILL be banned without further notice.

DO NOT START ANOTHER WAR TOPIC

[Edited on 3.23.2003 by anders]




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wildbrumby
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 04:40
Hmm, this is a new one? Good idea I think though.

I reconsidered and edited what I had written before. All i say is that I don't support this war at all.

Here's an article on another forum that I found that is really good.


http://members3.boardhost.com/john666/msg/47062.html

[Edited on 23.3.03 by wildbrumby]

[Edited on 23.3.03 by wildbrumby]

[Edited on 23.3.03 by wildbrumby]




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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 05:30
This says it all:

http://www.bruner.net/blog/2003_03_16_blarchive.shtml#90816396

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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 05:41
When I hear of us going to war, I think about the Iraqi people. I think about how they are killed and torchured by Saddam and deprived of freedom. I so damn love this country, becuase it stands for freedom and does what's right, not what's popular.
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jooli
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 06:09
u've GOT to take note that not EVERYONE is disatisfied of having saddam...n stuff
i've had a friend of mine talk/interview/hangout with a group of students from the University of Baghdad, and guess what... THEY"RE JUST LIKE US!
for example.. one dude was fooling around... ran into Virgin Megastore, came out with a Eminem CD, plopped it into the car, and started singing along comically!
they're JUST LIKE US, and they're the students, and the ones that should be majorly affect by politics.

and i am definately pro-war. i'm against "peace activists" cuz they dunno what they're talking about.
Peace activists jump onto everyone cuz they hear the word "war". if they were in a different situation where WE were attack, they'ed talk different.
For example, 9/11, lets say we knew that SAddam was behind the whole thing, we'd have the worldwide support of going into war.

and i'm REALLY hating France's attitude towards this whole thing. The politics about it is going all wrong. I mean blaming US for power trip? yeah, we're having a power trip so what? So did they.
[Side note: honestly now that Europe, and North America, had they're taste of success, asia/south america/ozeana will have a chance to rise up and make the Euro/American powers seem weaker: - authors note]

had lotta other points, but i forgot... my bf is too happy... lol i'll be back with other junk




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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 06:34
from protestwarrior.com:
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0001.jpg
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0028.jpg
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0067.jpg
http://www.protestwarrior.com/images/protest_gallery/us/images/0051.jpg

[edit]turned images into links to control the length of the forum pages[/edit]

[Edited on 3.23.2003 by anders]

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posted on 3.23.2003 at 11:36
i agree with ya jooli, but im not one for slamming it bang up in peoples faces.
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Chris
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 12:06
iam neither for against war. i do not think war is the answer (i believe it never is), but something has to be done to get Saddam out. it's all very well having all these peace protests, but if we don't goto war, what do they suggest we do? in my opinion, people like the SAS should just assasinate him, quietly.





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Sergi
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 12:40
I dont think a war thread is appropiate here at a design forum, but anyway, you started it and i'll try not to offend anyone (should i be warned or banned eh) so i'll leave religon out of this.

It's so sad US has to be in all these political situations. Ah no, sorry, all those that involve money, petrol, diamonds, guns etc etc. Why dont they go fight african or other asian countries? Why do they impose fanatic/dictator leaders (Sadam, Talibans, etc etc) that pay them back with favours and then want them out because they want more more more? Why do they train fanatics for their CIA (Bin Laden, Noriega, etc etc) and then want them killed because they cannt control them?

I agree that Sadam should be out of Iraq power. I could even agree in that he sh/could be killed. But why dont US enter silently and kill him? Why do you need to force a war against the whole international opinion?

US placed those murderers there (Sadam, Bin Laden, talibans, some south and center american leaders, etc). US even trained them, gave them money and guns. So go yourself now (Mr. ?) Bush and kill them if you feel they're doing things wrong. But dont involve the whole international community. We dont want a war.

I dont think this war is all about good reasons to defend iraqi people, sorry. If that was the case US would fight in african countries, korea, etc etc. I honestly think it's money money money. So sad how the big petrol companies started to openly fight for the cake before the war begun. Dont you see this is all about money?

Also, it's so sad how Spain was involved here. What the f*ck does Aznar think he's doin? What the f*ck does he think he'll get from this? Who the f*ck does he think he is? Isnt that important at all? Arent the millions of people rallying all around Europe count at all? We were close 2 million people in Barcelona one moth ago, and guess what they said? They said we were less than 200k. Sad.

Europe is breaking. And they're giving those fanatics an excuse to make terrorists of different countries a common front agains occident. Expect more terrorist attacks the following years, cause you've allowed them to have a common bad guy to fight to. Too sad.

I'll leave this here so far.

[Edited on 2003.3.23 by Sergi]




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wildbrumby
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 14:37
Why do we have to attack Iraq anyway? Saddam hasn't EVER threatened America. At least he didn't until America started to threaten to kick his tail. As an Australian, I'm really upset that Oz is off to war. Why is it that every time America blows up and goes off to war that Australia has to jump and follow? WW1 WW2 Korea, Vietnam, Afganistan, Gulf War, and now Iraq again. America is looking like the "big bad bully" right now across the globe. Don't misunderstand me. I'm against terror. If I was convinced that Saddam is a real threat, then I would be right behind it. But this "attack" sets a bad example for other countries. If America can bounce Iraq, then why can't N. Korea attack S. Korea. Why can't Russia invade Ukraine? If we are so concerned about Saddams WMD and his brutal threatment of his own people (who strangely seem to like him), then why don't we also attack China, who has more WMD then Saddam ever had, and who has a long history of Communist rule? Anyway, that's my two cents.
Somebody's going to probably misunderstand me and get upset. I think that Saddam is a dictator who doesn't allow freedom to his people. He's one bad dude, but the same classification can cover other brutal dictators who Bush hasn't even mentioned!

On a lighter note, here's a joke I heard yesterday:

"You can't play BINGO over in Iraq at the moment. As soon as somebody calls out 'B-52' everybody runs for cover"

[Edited on 23.3.03 by wildbrumby]

[Edited on 23.3.03 by wildbrumby]




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anders
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 16:05
i agree with sergi and rob....if iraq was in the same category as any african country, like zimbabwe, u think bush would even lift a finger to "help" the people there? or care if the ruler was a dictator?

for example, china, there are citizens who dont like their current leader...chinese troops hunt after the so called falun kong, torture them and kill them.. but u dont see bush sending troops there...
every country has to be responsible for their own problems

rob.lol...nice joke...

just my 2 cents:

no matter what the cause, war is NEVER the answer in this generation...
the people getting killed are teh soldiers (of both sides) and the innocent civilians...and what do the people who wanted war in the first place doing? sitting comfortably and safely behind their desks and planning the next step for getting more people killed.... (bush even took a holiday last few days at camp david while "his" troops are fighting for him)...geez....

really, hand both bush and saddam a rifle and send them to the frontlines (where all the bombs are going off and bullets flying both ways) and see how long this war will last... immediate withdrawal...

and who gains after all this war is over?
if iraq wins, only saddam has to gain from it..
not the innocent survivors in iraq....not the iraqi soldiers...nor the dead ones...the country will be devastated after all that bombing..
if US wins, only bush's government has to gain from it...
not the US troops out there (yeah..they might win medals..so what)...definitely not the US citizens/taxpayers...
and in the end of all this...rest of the world will be back to normal and the winner collects the prize..whatever that might be(oil? power recognition? money?)....while the rest of the survivors who had nothing to do with saddam will hve to rebuild their country.... or the US families who have to mourn for their lost ones..

and maybe a few years from now...some pissed off people might decide is payback time and 911 will happen all over again....

so as i said...war is never the answer....it will only lead to more war and the cycle will loop infinitely....

hmm..maybe that was more than 2 cents...LOL

[Edited on 3.23.2003 by anders]




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Chris
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 16:28
yea, agree with Anders and Sergi. It is all about the money. Do you think they were securing the oil wells just to prevent an ecological disaster? I don't think so...

The americans keep saying how accurate their weapons are, and i have no doubt as to how amazingly accurate their weapons are, but no matter how accurate they are, if they are aimed at a wrong target, they're no good. how do they manage to hit an RAF plane... its certainly not the technology at fault.

Also i could not believe the amount of Butt-kissing Tony Blair has been doing. I can only see his feet now; the rest of him is up Bush's arse. Between the UK and US alone, there is the SAS and Navy Seals, which are more than capable of assasinating Hussein; look at the Irani embassy seige in 1980.

war doesnt solve anything, and right now they've not even properly started. sadam controls so much himself, all they need to do is take out him, and the 'reigeme' will fall, and every iraqi soldier (who are only following orders) will surrender. it starts getting really bad if someone starts with chemical/biological weapons. the sand will get contaminated, spread to parts of Europe probably and other areas of the world, and you have a big problem.





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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 18:54
You guys are wrong,worng, wrong.

People were wrong and didn't want to do anything (especially EUrope) when millions of Jews were slaughtered, and for that matter, when Africans were harshly enslaved.

And you are wrong now.

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whatisthematrix
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 18:56
many ppl here, says that war doesn't solve anything...war does solve some problems...but war isn't the best way to solve problems, but I think it was that this time...




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Sergi
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 20:50
Ok, if we are so wrong tell me why US doesnt fight China, a country that has been proved to endanger their own people, kill their daughters (otherwise government can kill you) and many many other disgusting facts against their own country. US doesnt fight China simply because they dont have the bollocks: US would probably lose and/or force a WW3, and these days, this implies an atomic/chemical war. But mainly because there's nothing they can take from there. No oil, no diamonds, etc. The only benefit would be a weakened China country.




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jooli
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 21:16
everyone calls Bush a bumbling idiot.
i for one DO NOT AGREE. well i used to but now i dont.
sure he sucks at public speaking but dont tell me you're the master at speaking.

i'm glad that Bush had enough sense to not listen to the protestors... Protestors manage to push people into war. Its happened all the time. if there where no such thing as protestors there wouldn't be a war.

Why doesn't N.korea attack s.korea? hello! people in s.korea are going crazy! Seoul is barricading everything in case of attack and this has been going on for some time now.

why doesn't US attack China? uh... remember the "good terms" that China and the US are supposedly in since the other wars? [sphere of influence crap]

everyone's basically grinning and smilng for the camera while calling each other buttmunches behind their back.

Why attack Iraq? Yes the US did fund bin Laden, they didn't know that he'd turn right back around to fight the US.
And as history has it with the unexpected alliences, it'd be a BIG TURN OF EVENTS if Osama and Saddam allied themselves against the US. thats the ONLY thing i'm worried about. Saddam alone doesn't pose too big of a threat.

But Osama, Iraq, N. korea as a "big three" does present big huge problems... kinda like stalin etc..

funny how such tragedies happen on such nice weather... i.e. pearl harbor, 9/11, war against terror...
i've never seen such bluer skies

also... the best way to deal with war, is to go about ur daily lives. to not do that is letting "the bad" win.

[Edited on 3.23.2003 by jooli]




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simu
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 21:26
war is wrong in any way, especially if it's all about money and believe me this war is!

fact is that many people in the us government and I mean really high people, are directly or not making money, much money, with oil.

come on do you really think they want to build up a nice little democracy in Iraq? no they want the oil, it's all about the oil, but this war is gonna fail, it will take too long, economy will collapse and bush, blair and the others won't be voted again.

and anyway why Iraq and not any other countrys which could maybe attack the USA sometime...

if the proves the USA have against Iraq are enough to attack a country, every country should be attacked, yeah come on let's destroys everything and kill everyone before they might kill us, lol I mean are people really as stupid?




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jooli
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 21:29
yes definately this BS about democracy in IRaq is nonsense.
i mean first off, who said the Iraqi's even want democracy anyway? just cuz majority of the world is going democratic??

and the project to rebuild Iraq after the war, will cost the tax payers lotta money.. was it something like... $300million?




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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 21:33
Almsot all of you are Idiots, stupid people victimized by propaganda. Is this some kind of joke?
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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 21:42
Do you guys also think that Palestinian suicide bombing is just?
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Sergi
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 22:05
quote:

Almsot all of you are Idiots, stupid people victimized by propaganda.
I knew from the start that this thread would lead to offending comments. Just the fact that I dont think like you doesnt allow you to insult or call us stupids. If this continues we'll close the thread right now.




quote:

Do you guys also think that Palestinian suicide bombing is just?
Maybe you should complete your sentence.


quote:

i mean first off, who said the Iraqi's even want democracy anyway?
You're obviously too young to have travelled around. People may not know there are other ways of living. Women in undeveloped countries are really mistreated by men. But most of them think that's the only way.


quote:

i'm glad that Bush had enough sense to not listen to the protestors... Protestors manage to push people into war. Its happened all the time. if there where no such thing as protestors there wouldn't be a war.
Sorry, but you obviously dont know what you're talking about jooli.


quote:

why doesn't US attack China? uh... remember the "good terms" that China and the US are supposedly in
That's what I was talking about. Now they're convenience friends.


quote:

everyone's basically grinning and smilng for the camera while calling each other buttmunches behind their back.
I think that's the only thing I can agree with you.



quote:

Why attack Iraq? Yes the US did fund bin Laden, they didn't know that he'd turn right back around to fight the US. And as history has it with the unexpected alliences, it'd be a BIG TURN OF EVENTS if Osama and Saddam allied themselves against the US.
This is how US works. US funds fundamentalists to fight for them (instead of them) against whatever country they want money from. Then those take too much power and US thinks they have the right to take them away. Always the same. Iraq by itself is not and has never been a theat to US nor Europe. The problem will be when all terrorists join in a common front agains occident, cause they will due to this stupid war. And then we all will suffer. This war will only bring death and terrosism. Expect more 911's.



quote:

also... the best way to deal with war, is to go about ur daily lives. to not do that is letting "the bad" win.
No, sorry, the best way is trying to force a withdraw, or even better trying to force politicians not to start a war it's not ours.




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simu
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 22:19
completely agree with you sergi




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Carbon Type
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 23:24
As you stated Sergi i believe that age and the opinions that come with age and also knowledge are needed in these threads...i have tried and failed with a quite neat design forum and failed because of political views, I have members from all over the globe and still when i asked it to stop it got worse....don't know why I bother sometimes.
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mynameisbob
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 23:31
you still didn't answer my question about suiside bombing.
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Sergi
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posted on 3.23.2003 at 23:47
thanx Janny. it's sad to talk about these things and people tend to over-react. that's why i think this isnt the place for these threads. This is a design community. But the thread is surprisingly well driven so far, let's see for how long.

bob, i didnt answer becasuse it's grammatically incorrect (is just what?). Write it the proper way and i'll do.

[Edited on 2003.3.23 by Sergi]




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